#i like it when theyre using these stories both for character exploration and critique of certain fan behaviors

[mihai-florescu]

Methods of torture in himeru's center events:

-underground labyrinth saw trap

-domestic life

[zeta-in-de-walls]

Hey guys, I’m afraid I’m going to continue critiquing the DSMP finale. 

So, with the first two streams I don’t think there were any major issues. I dislike the Dream and Punz friendship personally as staged disc finale was my least favourite plot twist so seeing that actually cropping up in canon isn’t fun. Another arc where Tommy and Tubbo decide to go and kill Dream is a little dull too but theyre good at making it feel fresh enough. 

It’s with the third stream that issues really start making themselves known. Dream and Punz’s plan is not all that good or interesting, certainly not when none of these are going to be explored at all given that it’s the penultimate stream. Like, what does people’s limbos being determined on how they die mean? What did it matter? It doesn’t even fit with past canon! And why did the revive book allow Dream to mind control Ranboo? What even...? 

More importantly though, Tommy is forced to give up all his possessions in his enderchest. Then he has to sacrifice his discs. I am incensed by this plot point. It’s once again reminding us that Tommy’s made to lose everything again and again thanks to Dream and these sacrifices are portrayed as a positive thing? Loving things isn’t a problem and he shouldn’t have to learn again and again to give up all he has without being seen as selfish. Its not fun seeing this character beaten down again and again. I was hoping that the finale would subvert this idea once more and remind us that it was cruel and wrong and that Tommy deserves to be happy and live. 

Going into the final stream, I again hated that Tommy’s plan involved killing himself. Tommy’s character has low self-worth and has had suicidal thoughts so this is not a good plot! He should learn he has worth, not the opposite. He shouldn’t need to die for his friends and he certainly shouldn’t apologise for existing. His story was all about how it’s okay to be yourself. It was always thrilling to see him standing up and moving forward unafraid to stand for what he believes him no matter how much he was crushed. 

Sadly the finale exceeded my expectations for how bad it could be. 

All those ideas I mentioned? Discarded. Tommy plans to die... and does die. Tubbo dies as well, so the sacrifice meant nothing in the end. Everything was lost. All the memories and stuff that made the Dream SMP the special place that it was, gone in an instant. None of it mattered in the end. No one stepped in this time to save anyone. 

And yet, that’s not the worst thing. Because this stream doesn’t really focus on Tommy. It’s Dream’s story. Tommy in the prison realises that Dream is just a person in the end, who had reasons for what he was doing. His reasons were his friends except Tommy joining the server got in the way of that. According to Dream’s narrative, Tommy provoked him into becoming what he was and Dream has always secretly longed for those simpler times. 

Tommy finds understanding when he sees a memory of Dream before Tommy had joined being happy. And this causes Dream to have doubt and he makes it clear that he wants those times back, that he might give up on all his evil plans just like that. Tommy apologises to Dream for hurting him that first day and that’s apparently a sign of Tommy’s growth in finally learning to see the other perspective.

This plot is rancid. Dream makes no attempt to understand Tommy, not even a little. Despite Tommy repeatedly pointing out how much it all hurt and how much he’d suffered, Dream doesn’t show the slightest sympathy. Yet the narrative paints Tommy trying to understand him as this special thing? Like it was the solution all along. Dream can abuse people and cause immense suffering but its up to his victims to try and understand him? Why is the story telling us Tommy, an incredibly thoughtful character anyway, needed to learn understanding? Why is it hinting that Tommy and Dream were not so different and their stories mirrored each other, both secretly desiring the same things? 

Dreams motives are so flimsy and it makes so little sense that he’d question his plan now. Yet he asks whether its too late and you can see Tommy’s regret for the nuke plan. His whole sacrifice thing, is everyone’s doom. How cruel. Dream can ruin everyone’s happiness but the question we should be asking is ‘what about Dream’s happiness?’ apparently. 

And finally, we end u with the characters on a new world with amnesia. Though they’ve forgotten everything, we still see Tommy and Dream becoming friends and this is some sort of triumph, implying with what came before that yes Dream and Tommy could’ve been friends had Tommy not ruined Dream’s world by causing trouble on that first day. 

Annoyingly, so many of these points don’t even make much sense. Tommy has tried to understand Dream before. He visited in the prison for instance. Tommy wanting to kill Dream is framed as a bad thing, like it was wrong to have this fixation but this fails to recall how dangerous Dream is to Tommy and how he’s promised to kill him repeatedly in the past. Tommy had been living alone drinking invisibility potions in fear! 

Each element taken on their own is a problem, but the whole is so much worse than the sum of its parts. The bigger picture is that Tommy dies learning that his abuser was a person with feelings too that he screwed up and he ought to have been more understanding but his plan got himself and everyone he cared about killed. He is the monster that killed the server and everyone he loved.

[mifhortunach]

some Unfortunate vague vambling into the void wrt tpf

The book is a grail quest, about ppl - either knowingly or unknowingly - on grail quests, and (with/presuming the small amount that can Ever be discerned about SL) written during/around a time when a grail quest was essentially occurring/could-would be a comfort narrative. Its a surprise (to me at least) that its, as Hopeful(?) as it is*. growth occurs! people move on & move past traumas/big Events(tm)! 

I had wanted to compare it to ‘Inside Llewyn Davis’ for some reason**, but its honestly not especially similar. If one was to take ILD as a starting point, as people/LD trapped in a cycle by the v nature of Who They Are, TPF kinda jumps from that point, or some a point of hitting a level of Rock Bottom and Acting/. For some of the characters its been a more gradual shift into decisive action, (Tracy, ARY Lewis), while w others its a hitting breaking-point/epiphanous kinda thing (Bob, Sid & Danny) - action is Spurred, etc. 

A reading could be taken then, as Action as Redemptive Force, mayhaps***. in certain cases. maybe. Sid & Danny, would probs be the easiest players to be reading this theme from, “fucking up”**** & then immediately deciding ‘yk what! lets find this fckd up old musician dude u/i really loved, and ask him to restart his 60s-70s band but w us in it this time’. SO! then they go from essentially wasting away, getting high & rehashing old routines & watching/critiquing awful (beastiality) pornos, to going on their drug-smuggling funded ‘grail quest’, to meeting & reteaching the dude guitar, to Genuinely /Finding/ the grail - before (thru an act of giving up on Expectations / releasing Bitterness) - giving it up. the previous wallowing / lacking of Authenticity is Absolved though all tht, as is a long standing weirdness between them regarding giving up on what could've been their Original /Actually Lucrative/ band*****. ARY Lewis thru action comes to terms / peace w himself even tho he Doesn't find his grail, Tracy finds a kinda “peace” thru a ‘mortifying ordeal of being known’ thing, etc etc. The man (SG Lee) loves his Things Bigger Than The Self stuff i guess.

As a theme this can maybe Also be seen in reverse/inversion, w Abby (p fckn minor character), not rly being Unredeemed or anything, mostly bc she starts off as one of the ppl Least in the gutter. but from the like, glances/vignettes of her once she leaves the main story ( “[god] has a hack screenwriter’s sense of drama” ), shes now set a drift in a way tht she kinda wasn't before, and as it goes on loses diff aspects of control/certainties in her own life. i don't think shes mabs treated as sympathetically as she maybe ought to be? could the loss of these things be read into as a weird punishment for /NOT/ going on or supporting ppl going on grail quests******** ? idk ! or idk, the ending w PR running off bc he's finally found that cigerette end, and her then missing the Avril Lavigne’s hit early 00s song ‘sk8r boy’ reminiscent bit w S&D ringing her up to send her audio of the 1st of the New round tabyls’ gigs, might be read as her still being Stuck/. everyone else has (to one degree or another) improved their position since the start of the book, except her, as the only thing she now no longer has is a deadweight boyfriend and his kinda grody bffl, otherwise everything is The Same.  

Not surprised tht he (i think?) doesn't think its necessarily aged well? or. that it is no longer Quite as Relevant bc of the internet & stuff - idrk if thats Properly True******* - both bc that kinda thing can Just About still happen, but also bc if there wasn't a p minor mention of 1997 being in the past, you'd probs assume it was set earlier. ditto some of the concerns wrt oh, You Know, fckn, Exoticism/native american/shaman stuff - which i don't think is bad/ignorant/racist! but its always difficult to tell, and everything (but which i legit mean Everything/ in Gen, in The World) could use more Nuance.  

I had smth else i wanted to say, but I've forgotten what it is tbqh - & ofc, this has mostly been an exercise in Thought ReHashment(tm). It might've been that the ending seems Terribly/ Tidy. like, i don't think there could BE another ending? but its very Neat: the Bad are punished, some leads are paired off in a (presumably) cishet coupling, bad feelings are trowelled up & buried, the bois remake a hot, niche & authentic band, Luther Peyote can play the guitar again: Picture Perfect. Its an ending that fits, its an ending tht (i think? idk Anything abt this kinda thing) puts emphasis on the quest-y stuff, and the poss redemption angle; but it feels like a far remove from the kinda squalor of the first while - which is probs another point in its favour, rip.*********   

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*not to say/imply (ofc! ofc!!) tht this might be seen as somewhat ooc of stewart lee, but it still kinda caught me off-guard. poss bc its a Very Tidy wrap-up, and it happens quite fast, i felt. but tht might just be the time that in it. 

**this reason may have been qs of #authenticity! or maybe just bc things/backgrounds/the world are kinda gross

*** “almost. action as redemptive force (as a form off faith/belief? faith/belief as redemptive force - if not in a god, in the World or Others?)” -> thats from the Even Worse! orig version of this, lmao. but also Action as a way of Escape/breaking a cycle

****for want of a better descrip

***** the orig uhm, idfk, them lemon boys, could probs be read into - if one Wanted to read too much into these things mabs - as some kinda weird parallel to the original On The Hour stuff(?) w AL vs L&H, & how they Didn't get royalties/whatever was up there. you'd never be able to be either Accurate or Sure about that though, even w certain traits of S&D being p clearly lifted from L&H, or old SL routines - theyre not Explicit or Perfect cyphers/inserts yk?******

****** following on! (if i may) some of the. not /Tension/,, but smth similar, w S&D often feels. not truly emotionally resolved? or just like, Unclear/ at times. the whole novel speeds up a fair bit once more than 2 (two) characters have to be properly juggled in a scene. [which is to say tht in some real Old L&H interviews, (usually in the ones where L isn't present, lmao) RH says tht SL gets ‘embarrassed’ by having to directly explore how ppl might feel about each other/relationships yk? can't say thats necessarily true! but it Is smth i couldn't help thinking about. but emotional exploration & openness is also the realm of fanfic, so maybe I'm asking too much, fgdksh] 

*******im trying not to use the word ‘necessarily’ here again

******** for the small sum of €5 a month, you too could support a pilgrim on a grail quest

*********tho tbf, could also v much be influenced by the whole thing being written over the better part of a decade, place/s while writing & stuff yk? idfk

[comicteaparty]

February 25th-March 3rd, 2019 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party week long chat that occurred from February 25th, 2019 to March 3rd, 2019.  The chat focused on AntiBunny: The Gritty City Stories by Vincent Davis aka Vinnie D.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- WEEK LONG BOOK CLUB START!

Hello and welcome everyone to Comic Tea Party’s Week Long Book Club~! This week we’ll be focusing on AntiBunny: The Gritty City Stories by Vincent Davis aka Vinnie D.~! (http://AntiBunny.com/)

You are free to read and comment about the comic all week at your own pace, so stop on by whenever it suits your schedule! Remember, though, that while we allow constructive criticism, our focus is to have fun and appreciate the comic. Below you will find four questions to get you started on the discussion. However, a new question will be posted and pinned everyday (between 12:01AM and 6AM PST), so keep checking back for more! You have until March 3rd to tell us all your wonderful thoughts! With that established, let’s get going on the reading and the chatting!

QUESTION 1. What has been your favorite scene in the comic so far? What specifically did you like about it?

QUESTION 2. At the moment, who is your favorite character? What about that character earns them this favor?

QUESTION 3. Who or what do you think “Dark Pooky” is? Why does “Dark Pooky” refer to Pooky as Ptolemy and what does the supposed missing gap of 50 years have to do with it? What do you think “Dark Pooky” has intended for Pooky?

QUESTION 4. What is the mysterious glow that surrounds Penny that only Agent Wesson and Agent Smith/Ed can see? Unrelatedly, do you think Penny will fix the robot she found? How will either of these scenarios affect her and the other characters’ futures?

AntiBunny

Hi everyone. I'm the author of AntiBunny. I'll just be quietly reading here and gathering feedback. I really appreciate this opportunity to hear some in depth thoughts on my work, and as always I invite you to draw your own conclusions.

Delphina

Are there navigation arrows somewhere I'm not seeing?

RebelVampire

theyre on the right side bar

Delphina

Ahhh, thank you

RebelVampire

QUESTION 5. What do you think happened in Pandora’s past that made her so well-known but ultimately got her killed by Agent Wesson? Do you believe Mulligan will get his revenge at the end of the day?

RebelVampire

1) im picking two scenes cause i can and nobody can stop me. the first scene i really liked was the warehouse confrontation with the bomb. i liked pooky both got some answers but also basically went "nope im out yo." the combination worked for me and made it both humorous and narratively satisfying. the other scene i liked was the scene where hannibal is waiting in the hospital and just casually talking to mulligan without realizing who he is. then mulligan reveals himself in the most crass way possible. again, i just like the combination. its funny, but narratively satisfying since i kept wondering when wed get to see penelope's dad ever since he was mentioned. 2) penelope. Idk. theres just something i really like about penelope. She's go this good sense of optimism and faith, but shes not overbearing or crazy. And even if she's not some rebellious sleuth or fighter or anything, the comic shows that her words have the power to change things just as much the fighting and other elements. 3) Well given a scene that was part of nailbat's story, Pooky is pretty obviously involved with enchanted forest. I imagine some boss type figure. And Pooky might be some prized experiment somehow? like the next step in bunny evolution or something like that. but maybe pooky had like the longest incubation period known to all sapient kind. As for what dark pooky intends, more evil science. I mean you don't get to be called dark pooky if you do the good science.

4) I'm not sure I have good theories about the glow. Like, maybe again, another part of dark pooky science somehow. Like a desire mutation that is a signal for the next stage of evolution. As for the robot, yes, i think penny will. and I'm really looking forward to it considering who that robot is. I think it's really going to be an emotional rollercoaster for everyone. 5) well given superheroing is a thing in this world, probably that or something. maybe not superheros but like a step down. like neighborhood watch on steroids. or maybe a group of detectives. i think pandora discovered something she shouldnt have though, which put her at odds with agent wesson. as for mulligan's revenge, nah i highly doubt it. more just because i think someone is going to get to agent wesson long before he does. and narratively speaking, i think mulligan's arc will be more about putting his kids first and revenge second.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 6. Do you believe that Pooky will once again become a successful reporter? What trouble might Pooky’s pursuit of this cause? Alternatively, what good might come of it?

RebelVampire

QUESTION 7. Who do you think Agent Wesson works for? Also, what do you think happened to Agent Wesson after the bridge explosion, and what consequences will that have for the story?

RebelVampire

6) I don't think Pooky is gonna rekindle that journalist career. Mostly because if Pooky lives to see the end of this story I will be very surprised. However, I think Pooky's pursuit will change the world regardless and force humans and rabbits alike to confront ugly truths about themselves and the world theyve created. Cause that seems to be a heavy theme and Pooky has shown to know how to work the media to drive that message home. 7) Enchanted Forest. And Agent Wesson is probably alive and probably plotting some hardcore revenge against Pooky. Agent Wesson will also bide time and wait until we've basically forgotten the character and then blamo, everything is ruined, sad times are had, etc. etc. etc. It will not be a good time

RebelVampire

QUESTION 8. Do you think Penelope will manage to testify against Mr. Huge, or will she inevitably be silenced by the many obstacles in her way? In the meantime, what do you think Auntie Fae is up to? How will this affect Penelope?

RebelVampire

QUESTION 9. Do you think that the characters will be able to change Gritty City and/or human-rabbit relations for the better by the end of the comic? Of the characters, who do you think has the highest chance of doing so and why?

RebelVampire

8) I think Penelope will manage. Shes the determined sort who will probably persevere. Although I also feel that her testimony wont matter and that inevitably the bad guy will win. As for Auntie Fae, I'm not sure besides being racist. Although I actually think she has a bigger agenda then the characters realize quite yet. In the sense that theyll think she just wants to get rid of rabbits when shes up to bigger things. like helping out evil scientists or something. 9) I think they'll change relationships for the better but not by much. Change is a slow, slow process and the more you try to force it, the less it usually works. But that's okay and I think whatll maatter is just changing the hearts of even a few ppl. Like what happened with Nailbat because I found Nailbat's story was really strong because of that aspect. Even though Nailbat was just one person, he changed some people lives and also had his life changed. If I had to pick someone who would actually instigate change, then Penelope. Cause Penelope is a badass with words insofar and really seems to leave an impact on all the people she interacts with.

snuffysam

i haven't been able to get through the archive yet, but right now my favorite scene is when we first see penelope street preaching. i don't know why, but I like the idea of this stalking amy-rose-type turning out to be something completely different

my favorite character so far is juju. gets introduced as a witch, and immediately gets herself trapped in a doll. love her.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 10. What are you most looking forward to in the comic? Also, do you have any final thoughts to share overall?

RebelVampire

10) a lot of stuff. like im really looking forward to the robot being fixed, to pooky exploring the dark pooky stuff more, seeing penelope more, and so forth. theres a lot of really great threads that are building up and id love to see them start paying off and how cause im sure itll be epic! in general, while it took me a bit to get into it, i really enjoyed the comic once i did and the story started to show its hidden depths.

Delphina

I just want to pop in and say that I did make it partially through the archive this week, but probably won't have time to finish, and thought Penelope was a very cute character. I paged through a bit of the later pages too and loved seeing how the art/craftmanship progressed.

Delphina

((I don't know what the policy is on critique in these segments, so I will definitely strike this from the record if it's not appropriate @RebelVampire , but when the story started alternating between the Pooky storyline and the Nailbat storyline every other page is when I started to lose focus and eventually dropped off reading because it was too confusing to keep track of the story. I think these storylines would benefit from not being mixed in the archives. I definitely know the challenge of spending time fixing old stuff versus using that time to move forward, but if you decided to migrate the story to a PHP-based solution in the future instead of static HTML, archive curation would be a factor I'd strongly recommend considering.))

RebelVampire

@Delphina critiques are allowed as long as theyre constructive, respectful, and dont become the predominant topic of the conversation. so in my book this one is fine.

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- WEEK LONG BOOK CLUB END!

Thank you everyone so much for reading and chatting about AntiBunny: The Gritty City Stories this week! Please also give a special thank you to Vincent Davis aka Vinnie D. for volunteering the comic and creating it! If you liked AntiBunny: The Gritty City Stories, make sure to continue to support it via some of the links below!

Read and Comment: http://AntiBunny.com/

Vincent Davis’ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/AntiBunny

Vincent Davis’ Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/U6U7CGJG

Vincent Davis’ Twitter: https://twitter.com/AntiBunny

[groundramon]

I’ve been thinking abt that one Sonic Boom scene I reblogged and i applied it to some other things I’ve been thinking about and

I never, ever want my stories/tv shows to be known as “that show that has gay characters in it” or “that show with a black lead/a lot of main characters of color”

Dont get me wrong, I’ll shove in LGBT+ characters into every nook and cranny of my shows that the network allows me to, I’ll try to show as many cultures and races as I can (in a respectful/educated way though, so I have a lot of research to do <D), but I dont want my projects to be known for that.  I dont want my projects to get outrageously popular because I included a trans character.

Because all I’m doing is treating these things as though they’re the norm.  I’m not doing it for brownie points, although I guess I’m doing it to give minority kids characters that they can relate to more.  But that’s only half of it; the other half or so is just...rounding out the score.  Making the hollywood catalog of characters a little closer to real-world numbers, even if at the end of the day im hardly making a dent in the years of homophobia, transphobia, racism, and sexism that this industry has built itself upon (just like all of American tbh but anyways)

I want my projects to be successful, dont get me wrong.  I want people to be able to enjoy the representation on my shows as well.  But I dont want to be given a free pass to write a shitty show because of it.  And I ESPECIALLY dont want people calling people who dislike my show a homophobe or a transphobe by default.

I dont want to ride off the coattails of people who were braver than me and have gone through more than me.  Quite frankly, another reason I dont want my shows to be know as “that show with the gay guy” is because that...that sounds suspiciously like I’m profiting off of other people’s struggles.  I guess I’m trans so it doesnt really apply there but I still almost feel like I’m just using LGBT+ identities as some kind of stepping stone to promote my own show.  Like how companies use allyship to promote their own brand.  Even if the people behind the company really do care about LGBT+ people (which theyre probably 95% at least indifferent about it, if they dont actually care) the company doesnt.  And a show is just as soulless as a company; a show cannot be an ally for LGBT+ rights, it can only advocate for them or use them to further its own agenda.  Just because I’m trans and an LGBT+ advocate doesnt mean shit in the context of the show.

But like, I cant control how other people see my stories, so if that happens then whatever.  If people say I’m profiting off of LGBT+ identities, then that’s their problem.  All I’m going to do is insist that people should look beyond the themes i present and the representation I enjoy putting into my stories, and actually look at the shows themselves for what they are.  If people dont then fine, they can enjoy my shows however they want to.  I cant police how people enjoy my content.  But I, for one, will always tell you that I want my stories to be critiqued and judged for what they are, factoring out the fact that i show some “progressive” tendencies in my writing.

Highlighting the fact that I have a black gay character is just counterproductive to the idea of normalizing these things.  Saying “oh yeah, my show is so progressive, we love showing all things LGBT+ and being as diverse as possible!  Keep watching to see more gay characters along the way!” is just...counterproductive.

I cant tell you how mad I get when people treat “oh, we have a black character!” as progressive.  Like I happened to be in the room one time when my mom had The Bachelorette on and I heard the announcer say “we are proud to announce our first black Bachelorette, [insert her name here]!” and I was immediately filled with rage.  Oh WOW, I’m so happy that in 2017, you’ve FINALLY had a black Bachelorette.  It’d be one thing if you just happened not to have a black bachelorette until then (I believe the female suitors in The Bachelor have been black in the past? so I’d be willing to choc it up to coincidence) but the fact that you ANNOUNCED it like it was some kind of great act of progressiveness just proves that you actually ARE bigoted racists. (It also doesnt help that one of her suitors that was announced when they said that said to her “I’ve heard once you go black, you never go back” and she just laughed awkwardly and?? oh my god i hate reality tv, not because its dumb but because of shit like this)

And the thing is, you can enjoy something with LGBT+ themes without solely liking it for said LGBT+ themes.  It’s purely coincidence that 3/4 of my favorite shows (LOK, SU, and GF - the only one that doesnt have them is ATLA which...kind of makes sense given that its older, but LOK did it later and was the first to do it as far as kids shows are concerned sooo) happen to have gay relationships in them.  Like I certainly appreciate that Asami and Korra are bisexual (both because lesbians and because of that twist ending for the love triangle bullshit, lmao), I certainly appreciate that the alien race in SU is technically made up of lesbians (or pan girls? either way, still lesbians), but that’s not why I like either.  In fact, it’s far from why I like either; I dont know if it even factors into my love for either show, but i know it doesnt significantly.  I would still like either show just as much were it not for the gay themes.  And that’s what I want my stories to be.  Sure you can appreciate the representation (and god help me do it right/respectfully), but I want you to like it without that, too.  Because otherwise...I’m just profiting off of other people’s struggles, and you dont sincerely like my work for what it is.

My primary goal is to create a good story with enjoyable characters that you can relate to.  Part of creating enjoyable characters is exploring all sides that humanity has to offer (within reason) - but that’s only one small aspect of one half of my goal.  And I really hope that shows in my work, and that people can appreciate the show(s) for what they actually are, not just because it agrees with their political morals.